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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello friends:

I recently turned my attention too mower engines.
The GXV Honda and clone family and I have a problem.

4cc are missing between the genuine GXV160 and its clone.
Has anyone here stripped a Craftsman or MTD mower with this strange 159cc engine ( might be a tie in with Kohler here based on the Choke configuration some of these use )

Why is this important too me?
Well I use a lot of mower parts in other things.
The GXV blade brake flywheel is a strong light unit that turns to 10,000 rpm ( you don't want to try that with cast iron )
But right now I want to know if there are some pistons in the Kohlers and flywheels I can use.
Kohler is a very sneaky company that used a proprietary taper for the flywheels on their courage clones and this means an expensive billet part has to be used to make a race engine of it ( same taper is found on the HF 212cc predator so I suspect these both come from the Loncin factory in China )

There is a 70mm piston in some of thee Kohler clones and with some luck I hope to find this shares flat top and Honda wrist pin for building some cheap 208 race motors among other things

There is a CDI unit in some of these mowers that I hope has an rpm sensitive retard function for easier starting.
Honda has this too but the buggers put an RPM limiter on it that I am hoping the Kohler does not share.

Craftsman - 37730 - 159cc My Stride Front Wheel Drive Mower | Sears Outlet
http://www.menards.com/main/outdoor...self-propelled-lawn-mower/p-1444441254506.htm
 

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You've put some effort into your studies so far. I've worked on a few GXV engines and often wondered about the interchangeability of parts but have never had the wherewithal to pick one of the non-Honda engines up so I could take it apart.

I'm going to draw on your knowledge here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for the reply:

So far I can tell you the clones I have seen inside of lack a lower ball bearing ( thinking a 6205 should be there )....

It is my understand the GXV has this bearing and not a bushing.

For a mower it really does not matter.
How many late D400 engines had the bushing in the bottom and not a roller bearing.
Most people never knew the difference for residential work.

As it stands I have what I call my standard engine program.
Everything uses the small block Honda clone and I keep standard parts.
One day my old mower will fail and I will have to make a choice and one of the most logical would be to stick to t 68mm piston.
Then I have rings and parts for as long as the bottom bushing holds.
And hen that fails buy another bottom...

Nice tin top there in your avatar.
Lots of good parts in that I can use lol
 

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Well, I can say that the GXV120s and GXV140s I've worked on have a bearing in the top of the engine, but none in the pan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The lower ball bearing might be application related

More questions than answers today.

Found a 67mm piston for the 168F engine on Aliexpress.
What is that?
 

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every horizontal gx and gx clone i have worked on have had dual ball bearings(one on the flywheel side of the block and one in the sump cover). the few gxv engines i have worked on have not had bearings, at least in the sump cover
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Honda does a very good job of backwards compatability.

Example:
The Z4M piston for the GX160 fits all the 160s and it fits the 200s.

Most folks would not care, but that piston seals better than the older ones and raises the compression on the 200(where it was never intended to be put, but it fits )

The Chinese engines and the contract engines on the other hand can be very frustrating.
Kohler had to be different ( pricks if you ask me ) and they specified a different taper on the flywheels to make it impossible to use standard parts ( race parts that is )

LCT ( the owner of the defunct Tecumseh brand ) had to make the cams journals and the wrist pins of their 208 clone different.

Honda has actually been very nice to us.
My local Honda dealer never has a part I need.

Often I go ask for a gasket of piece and he has non.
But he does have some things.
I pick what I need, other things I get from a clone dealer here too
Then I tare up the road past his shop to demonstrate to him he has no idea what does or does not fit because he only reads the computer and never tries anything.
How are you going to know what you can use in a pinch unless you actually see it it fits?
 

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WOW I looked at that Honda list and man they made a lot of small motor models.
NOS you really know the Honda and clones. Have you got into the Powermore clones?? They are using them in the MTD products. I got a few running this year and they were in Toro snowblowers. The video on the MTD site says they have bearings on both side of the crank. These were Horizontal shaft motors. Are you building Vertical shaft motors?? If so what are you using a vertical shaft racing motors for??
 

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I randomly picked out a few different engines off of the list there on boats.net. Each of the horizontal shafted engines I looked at had bearings on the PTO end. None of the vertical shafted ones did, only on the flywheel end. My "study" isn't conclusive by any means. It would take a week just to look at the parts lists for all of the 160 variants!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
WOW I looked at that Honda list and man they made a lot of small motor models.
NOS you really know the Honda and clones. Have you got into the Powermore clones?? They are using them in the MTD products. I got a few running this year and they were in Toro snowblowers. The video on the MTD site says they have bearings on both side of the crank. These were Horizontal shaft motors. Are you building Vertical shaft motors?? If so what are you using a vertical shaft racing motors for??
I have no experience with that engine.
If its a snow king its LCT or Loncin ( confusing connections between these companies ).

If its a 208 its quite likely a kludge that uses a rod with a wrist pin .011 larger than Honda.
Cam journals might be larger too.
If its a 212 its likely got a normal size wrist pin on a 70mm piston and a short rod on a long stroke crank.
In all case you can use a Honda crank, Honda rod and that 212 piston to freshen up a used engine.

The vertical shaft engines are just something that caught my eye.
I started to look at the numbers and noticed they had bores in the right size and potentially useful components
They are parts is all.
Maybe they have a better piston ( longer crown or or shorter skirt ).

The Kohlers might have a flywheel that I can use.

They could have a CDI ignition with a low RPM retard for easy starting and no RPM limit ( that last part is very useful ).

I can't buy engines just to strip them anymore and see how they tick.
Too many clones now and too many parts.

So when confronted with too many choices ask people who are specifically interested in mowers and mower engines.
You guys know what works for you and by extension you probably notice these things that have been missed by others not looking in the mower bins for parts.

I am not building racing push mowers ( but I bet I would be more fit if that were the case lol )
Actually I saw a bunch of fellows race a self propelled real mowers one time ( rode on the modified walk behinds as they whipped around a sod track in what looked like side car racing without the motorbike )

NO I am here to find new and inexpensive ways to build race engines and I was recently engaged in project to build some unique engines for a non race application.

Here is the engine that got me thinking this way.
This is too big to be a GX160 clone, too small to be a GX200 clone.
So what is it?
180cc OHV Gas Engine | Princess Auto
I'll give you a hint what I think it is.
A GX200 crank in a block machined to use pistons from a mower block.
But is it a tall deck or short deck now?
What rod did they use and where did they find it?
Obviously not a mower block but machined to use up parts.

All kinds of question no one can answer in the karting world because no one is looking at it.
 
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