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B&S 19 HP 33R877 will not turn over suddenly.

3K views 41 replies 8 participants last post by  Scooter B 
#1 ·
I have a 2014 Craftsman 42” Riding Lawn Tractor (T2200) with auto transmission and the OEM B&S 33R877-0002-G1 19 HP engine. Original owner and well maintained with regular maintenance. I have some mechanical repair and electrical experience but not an engine mechanic.

Engine was running fine when I parked it but had to do some deck repair work (see below if possibly relative).

Next attempt to start up the engine the starter definitely clicked but nothing was turning over. Battery was apparently low as after a few attempt no response from the starter. Had the battery tested and charged at Auto Zone, reinstalled battery and the starter definitely clicked or “kicked” harder than before but nothing else was moving for the engine to turn over.

Used wrench to turn the fly wheel with spark plug in and there is definitely compression and there seems to be one spot with a little more resistance which sounds normal from what I read so far.

Pulled the plug to inspect and it had some normal discoloration from being used but I had a new one on hand and replaced the plug. I opened all the electrical wiring connectors, cleaned out with compressed air and sprayed some electrical contact cleaner on the contacts to be sure. No go. Drained the oil to inspect for any catastrophic signs of debris or metal in the oil and it was clear. I had already replaced the air filter and sprayed some engine starter in the intake and replaced the gas filter as well. Basically a complete second tune up or replacement of the seasonal regular maintenance. I did check wires for continuity with a voltage meter but I didn’t have a plug tester (ordered) and couldn’t keep leads in place while sitting on the seat to start. Yes I verified that the deck belt was not engaged.

Two things I saw mentioned on other “won’t crank” threads had to do with “setting or tightening the valves down” and something about checking the status of a “spring on the camshaft”.

I do have a set of feeler gauges I have used for confirming spark plug gap and woodworking set ups and the previously mentioned voltage meter but I am going to need a lot more technical resources/instruction than an engine parts diagram to check the valves or God forbid the crank shaft.

Q1 Any other ideas of things to check besides confirming the spark plug getting electricity?

Q2 Any recommendations on help for a non engine mechanic tearing into an engine to inspect and adjust the valves or camshaft?

(After hitting a sapling trunk of a recently cut tree the engine was still running smooth without issue. I had to replacement/repair some deck components with broken drag link, front support arm for the deck and hammer out a dent in the deck. I already had new mower deck belt on hand and replaced it as well. Utility company contractors had cut a smaller 1.5” diameter sapling near the power line and was belo the grass level height. I was able to drive the lawn mower back to the driveway in reverse with only one steering link working after disengaging the cutters and engine sounded perfectly fine.)
 
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#6 ·
This has some good reading related to your issue. This doesn't cover valve adjustment, just electrical related to the solenoid clicking:


Report back and we'll help you narrow your problem down.
 
#8 ·
In-line ignition spark tester to plug is not passing.

Although it was dark by time I could check it I did discover one end of the under the seat connector was dangling loose and hoped I had found the problem. Snapped the connector back together but still failed to pass the ignition spark test.

The part that connects to the plug fell off twice while fiddling with things so I did try just starting the mower again after removing the ignition spark tester and got same results as before.

Not sure what other safeties are on the list to check.
 
#7 ·
Thank you very much Brad. I will read that shortly then upload and link the video clips I discussed earlier. The starter definitely engages the flywheel as in it moves up into position and gear/sprocket begins to turn but seems to hit a proverbial “brick wall”.

I will also be able to rule in or rule out whether the spark plug is getting current this evening when I get back to my house.
 
#10 ·
Don't worry about the spark plug yet. Until the engine turns over, you won't get any spark.

I am leaning towards the valves out of adjustment. You could, just for fun, take the spark plug out and try turning the key to see if it will turn over when there's no compression. I see the starter gear engage, but does not drop all the way back down. Makes me think it's hitting the compression and locking up.
 
#12 ·
1) The starter gear does drop all the way down when I turn the key to the off position and
take the key out but does stay half way up after failing to turn over but key still in ignition.

2) Took the plug out and tried to turn over but no change in response with plug out.

3) Just to cover all the bases I wanted to see if I could verify that the new ignition spark detector wasn’t faulty. The same connector that has wires going to the starter also has wires going to the plug connector and I previously confirmed continuity from the connector end of the wire to the end of the plug connector. I inserted another new spare spark plug into the spark detector and used a stainless steel hemostat clamped to pug and after touching the other end to the + battery post and touched the handle to the - battery post but light never came on to confirm current passing.

Did a continuity test with voltmeter which passed.

Tried using the voltmeter cable instead of the spark plug to connect spark detector directly to the battery posts and still nothing indicated by the light bulb…
 
#13 ·
1) The starter gear does drop all the way down when I turn the key to the off position and
take the key out but does stay half way up after failing to turn over but key still in ignition.

2) Took the plug out and tried to turn over but no change in response with plug out.

3) Just to cover all the bases I wanted to see if I could verify that the new ignition spark detector wasn’t faulty. The same connector that has wires going to the starter also has wires going to the plug connector and I previously confirmed continuity from the connector end of the wire to the end of the plug connector. I inserted another new spare spark plug into the spark detector and used a stainless steel hemostat clamped to pug and after touching the other end to the + battery post and touched the handle to the - battery post but light never came on to confirm current passing.

Did a continuity test with voltmeter which passed.

Tried using the voltmeter cable instead of the spark plug to connect spark detector directly to the battery posts and still nothing indicated by the light bulb…
can you red neck it & use a jumper cable straight to the starter or relay to see if you get it to turn over?
 
#14 ·
Not sure if it is relevant at this stage of trouble shooting but I forgot to post the video of hand turning the flywheel when I posted the starter attempt video. I have no idea how much effort is normally required to turn this by hand but it took more effort than expected that I assumed was due to internal compression.

While I did not video it I did try this with the plug out after trying to see if the engine would turn over without the plug and there was no change in the effort needed to turn it. Not sure if this provides any clues or not but thought I would mention it.
 
#15 ·
Sure looks like a battery or starter issue in the videos... Jumper cables to a battery in a non-running vehicle to eliminate the battery as the cause.
 
#21 ·
Watching your video leads me to think that the engine is turning way too hard. You should be able to put both hands on the flywheel screen and rotate the engine at least to the compression stroke. Until that can happen, I wouldn't think the starter would turn it. If you remove the two bolts and drop the starter down, it should spin easily and run with a jump from the battery. The starter bearing could be tight. Spark won't happen until you get the engine to spin.
 
#23 ·
The starter gear does drop out of the way either when I take the key out or when I stand up and step off the lawn tractor. It may be getting temporarily held in place by friction after the starter gear engages the fly wheel that does not move with it. If you notice on the video of trying to start the engine the starter gear begins down below the fly wheel until I put the key in and turn it to the first position before engaging the starter.

That fly wheel will definitely NOT rotate a mm by hand turning it so I think you are correct about there being too much resistance to turning it. Does that pretty much rule in the internal engine components previously mentioned need adjustment?

I was hoping for a less invasive fix but ready to dig into that if someone can point me to a good tutorial or YouTube video.
 
#26 ·
Try this without the plug in. The engine should spin very free and fast. If with the plug in stops the engine turning then you may have a valve issue. Removing the valve cover and the plug again, rotate the engine. You should see one valve rock, then the other. They should rock the same distance. The valve gap, or lash, should be checked and verified.
 
#30 ·
Connect the neg battery thru your jumper cables to a point on the engine block. That way you eliminate any bad ground connections there might be. Take the red lead from the battery positive and touch it to the red connection of the starter. Do this with the spark plug out. The engine should spine easy. If so, put the plug back in and try it again. Don't leave the connection to the starter on too long to heat the starter. If the engine is too tight, it won't turn over with the spark plug in.
 
#31 ·
Will try that next Monday or Tuesday when I get back out there if this will give us some definite clarity for next step i.e. bad starter vs a non electrical internal engine issue.

Based on what others have said I am convinced the engine is definitely too tight.

1) The fly wheel is impossible to turn by hand with or without the spark plug installed. From what others have said the fly wheel should be turntable by hand with little effort.

2) It is still hard to turn with a large wrench with a long handle for leverage but at least it is not seized or frozen. There is also no perceptible difference in the difficulty of turning the fly wheel with or without the spark plug installed but I can tell while turning it with the wrench that there is an area that consistently has more resistance at least when the plug is in. I don’t recall noticing whether this also happened with the plug removed.

As difficult it is too turn the fly wheel by hand it is hard to imagine the starter overcoming that level of resistance unless engaging the started somehow also lowered the resistance at the same time.
 
#33 ·
That definitely looks like something is holding the engine up to me. He seems to be cranking on that ratchet pretty firmly to spin the flywheel. I hear a noise too. He also mentioned that the resistance was the same with the plug out. Maybe the crank bearing?
 
#35 ·
This is something that can be eliminated quickly. To OP this is something to try for sure. example: I bought a lt155 "Locked Up". When I got it home is nothing more than a old stretched belt. Yep it fires up now & spins.

Please try the other battery jumping too though so we can narrow it down hopefully.
 
#36 ·
I'd take the belts off, spark plug out. Check the coil isn't dragging on the flywheel. You can jump the starter on the starter main connection to a 12 volt battery, watch your toes when doing this. But from what I see that engine is probably fooked. Be aware, fixing small engines can become additive. Plenty of youtube videos, gobs of them to show you what to look for and what to do. Nothing to lose here, take it apart let us know what you find.
 
#37 ·
Thanks for all the responses and I apologize for being off line for a bit. Had a few other personal “fires to put out” or deal with.

Yes this unit does have the automatic transmission.

The possibility of the deck belt being too tight is something that occurred to me over the weekend. This all started with having to remove the mowing deck due to hitting a hidden 1’5”-2.0” diameter sapling stumps the power company had cut down when clearing some potential future issues under the power lines. Besides breaking one of the steering drag rods and that center rod going to the deck it dented one side of the mower deck in to where one blade was hitting the deck and I immediately disengaged the mowing deck.

I was able to back the mower up onto the driveway and the engine sounded fine and ran smooth at the time. I did put a new mower deck belt on since I had one on hand and had the deck off but it was a major struggle to get the belt back on. Nothing worked the way any of the YouTube videos showed for replacing the belt and I verified the new belt was the same length as the old belt side by side before replacing it.

It took several two plus hour attempts over several days to just get the mower belt around all the pulleys. I verified I followed the belt routing pattern on the deck and in the owners manual but everything I took off to get the belt routed could not be put back on with the belt in place and properly routed. Eventually instead of disconnecting the front or back “deck hangers things” or the cable bracket on the deck I removed some bolts that connected the frame over the center of the mower deck to the back deck hangers and using a car jack under the back along with a wooden wedge support under the front of the deck I was able to get the belt routed all the way around with the engine pulley fully parallel with the other pulleys.

The belt although mounted and routed according to the diagram still appears to have tension on all the pulleys with the deck lever in the disengaged position. I can however shift the lever between the engaged and disengaged positions without effort however. I have tomorrow set aside to try and start the engine without the belt installed, try the starter jump start from my car battery next and if the motor still does not turn over and if the motor starts ith the belt removed I will need to debug why the belt is so tight in the disengaged position.

Hopefully the engine appears tight and won’t turn over due to the mower belt tension being applied for some reason even with the lever in the disengaged position.
 
#38 ·
If this has an electric PTO the belt will be taught at all times. If manual, it will be very loos when disengaged. Watch out for belt guides an make sure you are inside them. Even when routed correctly, if you are on the wrong side of these keepers, the belt will be too tight and will wear out very quickly.
 
#39 ·
I dropped the mower deck again to take the belt off the motor pulley which I really wanted to avoid. It took me a week of serious and multiple on again an off again attempts just to get the belt back on at all. Kept changing the order of reinstalling connectors I had to remove to remove the deck for repair and it still required brute force strength to get it back on eventually the one way that did work.

One clue was the mower deck engage lever was also way to hard to move into the on position and back down. I was thinking since the belt had been so tight when installed that all this would loosen up just a bit if I could just get the engine running.

Good news is the fly wheel spun easily by hand with the belt removed and fired right up.

Bad news I I quadruple checked the belt pattern including verifying that the belt was on right side of the guides according to the belt diagram on the mower and in the instruction manual. Even though I stretched out the old belt and new one side by side with my fingers inside either end to confirm they were the same length, if I can’t figure out why the belt was too tight I may try the old one again. It didn’t really look worn much I had new replacements on hand and thought it would be a good time to put the new one on and save the old one for an emergency..

Thanks so much for all the help!
 
#40 ·
I dropped the mower deck again to take the belt off the motor pulley which I really wanted to avoid. It took me a week of serious and multiple on again an off again attempts just to get the belt back on at all. Kept changing the order of reinstalling connectors I had to remove to remove the deck for repair and it still required brute force strength to get it back on eventually the one way that did work.

One clue was the mower deck engage lever was also way to hard to move into the on position and back down. I was thinking since the belt had been so tight when installed that all this would loosen up just a bit if I could just get the engine running.

Good news is the fly wheel spun easily by hand with the belt removed and fired right up.

Bad news I I quadruple checked the belt pattern including verifying that the belt was on right side of the guides according to the belt diagram on the mower and in the instruction manual. Even though I stretched out the old belt and new one side by side with my fingers inside either end to confirm they were the same length, if I can’t figure out why the belt was too tight I may try the old one again. It didn’t really look worn much I had new replacements on hand and thought it would be a good time to put the new one on and save the old one for an emergency..

Thanks so much for all the help!
That's great that you've narrowed it down to the belt area & eliminated the engine area as a cause for the drag. keep at it!
 
#41 ·
I use a paint pen or sharpy and draw a line on the belt and using a tape measure, I measure the outside length of the belt and compare it to the OEM spec. Many times I have found that people put the wrong size on. A couple times, I have had to go to a slightly different size to get things right. You have a manual PTO lever, that belt should be very loose when not engaged.
 
#42 ·
I finally was able to figure out the belt issue.

I ordered one replacement belt for each of the two different belts from Amazon last fall to have on hand as spares. When I took the mower belt off I assumed that I had received the two different belts as ordered. Fortunately I saved the original belt but over a week passed by time I fixed the dents in mower deck and got ready to reinstall.

If Amazon had correctly sent me one of each belt then out of the three belts hanging in my garage the two that matched had to be the original deck belt and the new deck belts as I never took off the dive belt. Long story short is Amazon sent me two drive belts instead of the two different belts that I ordered. This meant the two belts with the matching length were the drive belts and I had installed the shorter drive belt onto the deck pulleys. Grrrr
 
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