Oil is too thick - Lawn Mower Forums : Lawnmower Reviews, Repair, Pricing and Discussion Forum
Small Engine Repair Discussion Talk about issues or tips you may have for others regarding small engine repairs.

 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Illinois
Posts: 35
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Oil is too thick

I got a Toro 20332 mower -- 2010 model for free, and just starting on it. I was told it doesn't start. Looking first at the oil (it's a just check oil and add, no oil change necessary), Oil is very low and sludge -- almost paste. Well. it's paste. How it ever ran, I don't know. I need to add something to that sludge, then try to mix the oil as best I can by turning over the engine (I'm guessing it's not going to start), then drain all that. Then add new oil, and probably change the oil later.

What would be good to add to the sludge, that would mix with the sludge so as to flow well enough to allow most of it to drain out of there? I'm thinking that anything might work -- even brake cleaner. But I'm a bad guesser, and maybe there is something much much safer, maybe designed to clean the insides of engines.

I worked on mowers all last summer -- quite a few, but this is the worst oil I've ever seen. Thanks -- appreciate the help
Dan Kilhoffer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 09:08 PM
Senior Member
 
keakar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: louisiana
Posts: 541
Thanks: 6
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
me personally, after draining out as much as you can, i would dump about 2 quarts of gas in it

then remove spark plug and pull the rope until you run out of energy, then drain it out, add one fresh quart of oil and repeat pulling the rope until you run out of energy, then drain and fill to normal levels and replace spark plug.

but to be honest, if it was as bad as you said, im betting there is a lot of wear in that engine now and its life has been shortened

You can only learn if you ask the question, so there are no dumb questions.
keakar is online now  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Illinois
Posts: 35
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Gas? It's a good cleaner. My dad (farmer way way back when) used gas as a cleaner all the time -- cheap and he had a huge gas tank on the farm. I never would have thought to put it inside the engine, but now that you mention it -- I can't see why not. It does clean. Really well.

I am also a bit concerned about the engine wear, but it does turn over (somehow), and perhaps not starting (prior owner replaced carburetor trying to get it to start) may have saved it from the worst. I'll give it a go tomorrow (weather permitting).
keakar likes this.
Dan Kilhoffer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 11:05 AM
Administrator
 
motorhead12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 7,615
Thanks: 217
Thanked 1,231 Times in 1,137 Posts
I second the gas notion. Once you get the crud out of there, you can assess how much damage is done. If it's got low compression then you know already know what killed it.

motorhead12 is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 01:36 PM
Senior Member
 
keakar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: louisiana
Posts: 541
Thanks: 6
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Kilhoffer View Post
Gas? It's a good cleaner. My dad (farmer way way back when) used gas as a cleaner all the time -- cheap and he had a huge gas tank on the farm. I never would have thought to put it inside the engine, but now that you mention it -- I can't see why not. It does clean. Really well.

I am also a bit concerned about the engine wear, but it does turn over (somehow), and perhaps not starting (prior owner replaced carburetor trying to get it to start) may have saved it from the worst. I'll give it a go tomorrow (weather permitting).
just a note of caution with gas, make sure after its done that you leave the engine open so fumes can escape and any leftover liquid gas can dry up and evaporate. liquid gas will instantly strip away the lubricating ability from oil. any minor residual gas film wont be enough to hurt anything.

You can only learn if you ask the question, so there are no dumb questions.
keakar is online now  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Illinois
Posts: 35
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead12 View Post
I second the gas notion. Once you get the crud out of there, you can assess how much damage is done. If it's got low compression then you know already know what killed it.
No oil came out when I turned it upside down. Weird. I had seen some oil on the dipstick. Not much. I filled with gasoline, and gave the pull cord a try. More of a metallic sound than I'm used to, but perhaps that's what it sounds like when using gas for oil. Piston sits above the oil level, and a splash mechanism splashes oil (or in this case gasoline) on the piston. That's my thinking, anyway. That seemed to work, I guess.

Left the gas in there for an hour, and dumped it out. Not much sign that any gas mixed with any oil. Maybe a little. Added oil back in there, not much really, and now the stick shows full (of oil). I guess there is a bottom layer of oil goo, with a thin layer of oil on top. Maybe when the mower gets hot, the goo heats up and I can get it out of there, if it ever starts.

I put the spark plug back in there, and tried to start it. Wasn't expecting much. It started. Sounds lubricated as it runs. Dies though. Like maybe the carb or the governor isn't working. But it runs, and sounds decent. I guess the oil splash mechanism must be sitting above the goo, where the little bit of oil is. Previous owner thought he had a carb problem, replaced the carb, didn't help.

I guess I'll try to get it warmed up, by running it as best I can, restarting as necessary, then try to dump the hot oil goo out of there. Might eventually get enough out to have a decent amount of good oil in there. That's the plan, anyway.
Dan Kilhoffer is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 03:48 PM
Senior Member
 
keakar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: louisiana
Posts: 541
Thanks: 6
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Kilhoffer View Post
No oil came out when I turned it upside down. Weird. I had seen some oil on the dipstick. Not much. I filled with gasoline, and gave the pull cord a try. More of a metallic sound than I'm used to, but perhaps that's what it sounds like when using gas for oil. Piston sits above the oil level, and a splash mechanism splashes oil (or in this case gasoline) on the piston. That's my thinking, anyway. That seemed to work, I guess.

Left the gas in there for an hour, and dumped it out. Not much sign that any gas mixed with any oil. Maybe a little. Added oil back in there, not much really, and now the stick shows full (of oil). I guess there is a bottom layer of oil goo, with a thin layer of oil on top. Maybe when the mower gets hot, the goo heats up and I can get it out of there, if it ever starts.

I put the spark plug back in there, and tried to start it. Wasn't expecting much. It started. Sounds lubricated as it runs. Dies though. Like maybe the carb or the governor isn't working. But it runs, and sounds decent. I guess the oil splash mechanism must be sitting above the goo, where the little bit of oil is. Previous owner thought he had a carb problem, replaced the carb, didn't help.

I guess I'll try to get it warmed up, by running it as best I can, restarting as necessary, then try to dump the hot oil goo out of there. Might eventually get enough out to have a decent amount of good oil in there. That's the plan, anyway.
at this point, if you didnt need to add the right amount of oil fore it to show full, then i would just pull the engine, flip it over, remove the bottom sump and get a look inside. until you do that i cant see spending another minute or another penny messing with it until you are certain whats going on inside there. check for excessive play and movement in the rod bearings and piston as you turn the crankshaft without actually taking them apart

worst case is if everything looks ok, then you just have the cost to replace the gasket and oil seal, but at least then you will know for sure what you are dealing with
Grunt likes this.

You can only learn if you ask the question, so there are no dumb questions.
keakar is online now  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Illinois
Posts: 35
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by keakar View Post
at this point, if you didnt need to add the right amount of oil fore it to show full, then i would just pull the engine, flip it over, remove the bottom sump and get a look inside. until you do that i cant see spending another minute or another penny messing with it until you are certain whats going on inside there. check for excessive play and movement in the rod bearings and piston as you turn the crankshaft without actually taking them apart

worst case is if everything looks ok, then you just have the cost to replace the gasket and oil seal, but at least then you will know for sure what you are dealing with
I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. I drained the oil, and popped the bottom off the engine, and there is no goo. No sludge. No paste. There was a surprising amount of oil still in the engine, which was upside down at this point, so pooled at the top of the engine. I dumped it out -- it look like used oil, nothing worse than that. Quite a bit,

That means, when I initially dumped the mower upside down, it didn't drain all the oil, or even close. In all fairness, I found an oil plug on the bottom, and if there is a right way to drain the oil, it would be via the removal of the oil plug. I did look for one, when the engine was on the deck, and couldn't find it. Must have been covered up. So, when I believed that turning the mower upside down would drain all the oil -- I must have been wrong.

I'm still struggling with my finding paste oil on the dip stick. And the dip stick itself was sticky -- like dried oil. I do recall, when first checking the oil, that getting the dip stick out didn't seem to require turning it. I imagined at the time that maybe the dipstick had been on there loosely, untightened. Then I decided: so what? Previous owner had been working on it. And went on. Loosened recently wouldn't have mattered.

However, if it had been on there loosely, all winter, then I guess the oil at the dip stick could be thick, but not the rest of it?

I feel silly for dragging you into my nightmare. I've never seen a case of me being so far removed in my thinking from what was, I guess, actually happening. Loose oil dip stick, just sitting on there, not tightened. All winter.

That's all I got. Dumbest thing ever.
Dan Kilhoffer is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 12:02 AM
Senior Member
 
keakar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: louisiana
Posts: 541
Thanks: 6
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Kilhoffer View Post
I found an oil plug on the bottom, and if there is a right way to drain the oil, it would be via the removal of the oil plug. I did look for one, when the engine was on the deck, and couldn't find it. Must have been covered up. So, when I believed that turning the mower upside down would drain all the oil -- I must have been wrong.

I'm still struggling with my finding paste oil on the dip stick. And the dip stick itself was sticky -- like dried oil. I do recall, when first checking the oil, that getting the dip stick out didn't seem to require turning it. I imagined at the time that maybe the dipstick had been on there loosely, untightened. Then I decided: so what? Previous owner had been working on it. And went on. Loosened recently wouldn't have mattered.

However, if it had been on there loosely, all winter, then I guess the oil at the dip stick could be thick, but not the rest of it?

I feel silly for dragging you into my nightmare. I've never seen a case of me being so far removed in my thinking from what was, I guess, actually happening. Loose oil dip stick, just sitting on there, not tightened. All winter.

That's all I got. Dumbest thing ever.
im pretty sure the oil drain plug is always at the base of the dip stick tube, i know it is on rider engines

we all make those buys, it happens, learn and move on, at least everything seems fine. you just have to figure out the dipstick and oil pan have an issue marking correctly, and well, to be honest, just refill with oil to the dip stick and run it until it blows up lol. but seriously, more then likely it will be fine and never give you an issue.

a small push mower just isnt worth putting much money into because you can just buy a good used one for $50

You can only learn if you ask the question, so there are no dumb questions.

Last edited by keakar; 05-16-2020 at 12:09 AM.
keakar is online now  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 12:57 AM
Administrator
 
Mark / Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central Ohio USA
Posts: 6,023
Thanks: 372
Thanked 711 Times in 621 Posts
Garage
Late to this and after the point now but I have heard of mixing some kerosene in the oil and running the engine for 30 seconds or so to help loosen up sludge so it will drain out. Probably safer as it is less volatile then gas.
laabk2 likes this.

Mark - 2002 John Deere LT150H

Mark / Ohio is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Mark / Ohio For This Useful Post:
suspicionofignorance (05-19-2020)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Lawn Mower Forums : Lawnmower Reviews, Repair, Pricing and Discussion Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome